Director Ira Sachs breaks down the surprising influences on his new film.
Warning: This article contains spoilers aboutPassages.
The three of them search for connection amidst their desire and Martin’s yearning for a family.
Ben Whishaw and Franz Rogowski in ‘Passages’.MUBI / Courtesy Everett
“That was a plot gear, to be honest,” he says, with a laugh.
“The film is certainly personal, but it’s not particularly autobiographical.
I’ve made more autobiographical films than this one.
Ben Whishaw and Franz Rogowski in ‘Passages’.Courtesy of Sundance Institute
I thought the gap between those two seemed very dramatic.
I wrote the film for Franz Rogowski.
I was really turned on, and I was excited about the possibility of collaboration.
Ben Whishaw and Franz Rogowski.Jack Dempsey/Shutterstock
There’s always someone missing something and that brings the whole film up to a place of passion.
That’s of the story of the film in a certain way.
It was a little bit living under Trump and wanting to find vulnerability in male power.
The film in some ways is acting out desire.
I wanted to ask about your use of red in the film, specifically with Martin’s robe.
I had a wonderful collaboration with Khadija Zeggai, the costume designer.
What we chose to do is to make a very realistic film in an unreal way.
All of those things become the texture ofPassages.
You have very expressive framing and staging.
Well, I didn’t set it up.
It was an accident.
In a way, what I’m doing when I’m shooting is I’m looking for accidents.
I’m trying to create an atmosphere in which there is the potential for something extraordinary.
At the same time, there’s always the potential to fail.
So, it’s an atmosphere of risk.
I’m also positioning the camera in a way in which it’s observant, but can’t intrude.
So sometimes the intimacy going on between the actors excludes the camera in a way that is enticing.
I did find myself wondering if Agathe actually got an abortion, or if she was lying to Martin.
Did you want us to have some skepticism there?
The future, the past, and everything in between is filled with possibility.
We don’t know who the hero is.
That shifting is an atmosphere in which narrative shifts, but so does power.
I watched that film; I watched a lot of movies during the pandemic.
It’s a direct lift fromRemember the Night.
Sterling Holloway was also the voice of Winnie the Pooh for Disney.
That’s funny because Ben Whishaw was the voice of Paddington.
So, how you end up reaching out to Ben and landing him for this movie?
We became friends on Instagram.
Making the film has been a wonderful experience with Ben.
Franz, I always thought of as an animal and Ben as a knife.
Ben’s extraordinary because he has this modesty which disappears in the moment of action.
But in terms of filming them, are they very carefully choreographed?
Is it more an observational thing as you’re saying?
What is your approach as a director to those moments?
You start with asking the actor what is his or her boundary, and then you proceed from there.
There’s no discussion until the boundary is stated about what an actor feels comfortable with.
But within a set of conditions which have been agreed upon.
Do you think he’s learned from this and will take these lessons to heart going forward?
I can’t answer that because I think it’s really subjective.
So, there is completion, if not resolution.
Passagesis now playing in theaters.
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