In celebration of 20 years of Shondaland, EW sits down with the woman behind it all.
“Doing things like meetings and pitching were really not my strong suit,” Rhimes tellsEntertainment Weekly.
But her writing didn’t just speak for itself.
Shonda Rhimes.Tyler Twins
Pretty well is one way to put it.
SHONDA RHIMES:No, no.
The originalGrey’spilot, I think it was 65 pages long.
T.R. Knight, Ellen Pompeo, Katherine Heigl, Sandra Oh, and Chandra Wilson on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Richard Cartwright/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
Honestly, all the scripts I write or we make are that long.
The real rewrite is in the editing process, so it’s always good to have scenes.
And so I just write those scenes in.
Patrick Dempsey and Ellen Pompeo on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Craig Sjodin/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
I think it’s important.
Was there a moment when you realized thatGrey’sreally worked in a major way?
You have to understand, [I had] zero experience in television.
Bellamy Young as Mellie Grant on ‘Scandal’.Michael Desmond/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
I didn’t understand any of that.
But I thought the pilot was really good, and I knew that I wanted to see it.
And Betsy [Beers] thought the pilot was really good, and she really wanted to see it.
Sandra Oh as Cristina and Ellen Pompeo as Meredith on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Vivian Zink/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
But I wouldn’t have made it if I didn’t think it was really good.
Somebody turned to me and said, “This has literally never happened in the history of ABC.”
That happened all the time, and it was really fun.
Chandra Wilson and Mandy Moore on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Danny Feld/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
True character development got to happen with sort of a back-and-forth creative process.
And to an extent, we still have that at Netflix, just because I work how I work.
I don’t think we’ve ever started shooting a show and had the end of the show written.
Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Denny on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Scott Garfield/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
It wasn’t out a creative need.
It’s a much more creative process in that way.
Bellamy Youngwas a guest star onScandal.
‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Vivian Zink/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
I see this story."
And it was because of the way Bellamy played it.
AsGrey’swas growing, social media became a thing and audience feedback went to another level.
KaDee Strickland and Paul Adelstein on ‘Private Practice’.Adam Larkey/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
I always say this, but my only allegiance is to the story.
And I mean that in every single way.
So for me, my whole allegiance is to story.
Amy Brenneman and Amanda Foreman on ‘Private Practice’.Karen Neal/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
The story’s going to be what the story’s going to be.
Anybody can comment in any way they want to.
That’s the job.
The cast of ‘Private Practice’.Andrew MacPherson/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
You put out the art, they react to the art.
I love that everybody has strong reactions, because that always tells me that it’s working.
I can’t tell you the number of times somebody said, “I absolutely hate this.
Kerry Washington and Viola Davis on ‘Scandal’.Mitch Haaseth/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
I’m never watching this show again.”
And that goes on for five years.
To me, my job is to just tell story.
Regé-Jean Page and Phoebe Dynevor on ‘Bridgerton’.LIAM DANIEL/NETFLIX
It’s not organic and it doesn’t really work.
I have to say I’m with you.
The original end of the season was the elevator episode.
Edwina Findley and Uzo Aduba on ‘The Residence’.Jessica Brooks/Netflix
And then they were like, “We don’t have enough time to air this.”
So we ended on [Kate Walsh’s] Addison and picked up there.
It sounds insane now, because nobody’s doing that now.
‘Off the Map’.Craig Sjodin/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
But at the time, that’s what we were supposed to be doing.
And I loved my job so much.
Even on my worst days, it did not feel like work makingGrey’s.
T.R. Knight as George and Ellen Pompeo as Meredith on ‘Grey’s Anatomy’.Scott Garfield/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
Were there other times when something similar happened?
I mean, yes, but not in an extreme way.
The Bailey thing was…. That’s not the right story."
India Amarteifio as young Queen Charlotte on ‘Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story’.Liam Daniel/Netflix
It’s not that I can’t bear it or I don’t want to do it.
If it’s not the right story, it’s not the right story.
What do you think is the key to a good television death?
I have no idea, honestly.
Usually, if they devastate me.
I act out all of my scripts when I’m writing them.
As I’m sending the script to production, I act everything out.
I have a go at really feel it out.
If the death feels meaningful to me, then I feel like it should be meaningful to the audience.
Scott Garfield/Disney General Entertainment Content via Getty
Does one of your deaths stick out to you?
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten over killing [Jeffrey Dean Morgan’s] Denny, ever.
I cried when he died.
Literally, I cried when they were shooting it.
I couldn’t be on the stage.
And I was like, “And that’s what we’re doing.”
Because I loved his relationship [withKatherine Hiegl’s Izzie].
I thought it was great.
You’ve got your ferry crash, your plane crash, your bomb episodes.
Was there one that was the most difficult to pull off from a technical standpoint?
I think the ferry crash might’ve been the most difficult to pull off.
It was a lot of water.
The plane crash was extremely difficult too.
There’s a number of days and exactly what you need.
But you spoke up and were like, “No, stay on him.
Because the women in Iowa need to feel like he’s talking directly to them.”
And that’s very true.
I wanted that to be a speech where every woman was in Meredith’s shoes for that moment.
We didn’t need to see Meredith’s reaction.
We were having our reaction, and that’s pretty much what she was having.
That’s probably one of the reasons why I can still recite that scene word for word.
We’ve made so many episodes.
It’s impossible to have that kind of recall for 21 seasons of a show.
That’s a really hard question.
I have very specific episodes that I love in most of my shows.
FromPrivate Practice, “Did you hear what happened to Charlotte King?”
It’s that one.Grey’swas my playground.
I really felt like we were doing our best every single week.
That opening voiceover for the shooting episode “Correction: loved it here” is ingrained in my memory.
As is the image ofSandra OhholdingEllen Pompeoback as Derek is shot.
It really affected us when we did it.
But it felt really right for the story at the time.
It took a lot out of him to play that role.
Yeah, I think that’s probably one of my favorites.
We did have to fight to do the [Grey’s] musical episode.
I’ll be forever bitter about that, because it wasn’t that big a deal.
It wasn’t that hard.
We knew how to make the show.
I will be forever bitter about the fact [I had] to fight for that.
They were like, “you might’t do that.”
And I was like, “That’s the show.”
I had to fight for Olivia Pope’s abortion.
And the standards and practices said, “you could’t do this.”
It becomes very clear when you do that, that it’s not the scene you’re objecting to.
It’s the people in the scene you’re objecting to.
The same thing happened onHow to Get Away With Murder.
That’s what really helped us.
Learning things like that were really helpful.
And every last one of those people had basically had their own show at some point.
So putting them all together and then letting that be a show was easy.
I knew I wanted them to be doctors.
I knew that they could build chemistry.
And then, yeah, I wrote to them, which is crazy but true.
It was a very different approach.
We were in season 3 ofGrey’sand I was exhausted.
Were there any other spinoffs over the years that you wanted to do?
OnGrey’s, there were a bunch.
I felt like we could have doneChicago Anatomy,Boston.
We could have done that.
It just didn’t appeal to me to rebuild the same world.
And then we thought about a lot of things.
I thought that there could be a spinoff with Amelia [Caterina Scorsone] that was the Shepherd sisters.
They’re all doctors.
It could have been a Shepherd sisters show, which that would’ve been very interesting.
We wanted to do a B613 spinoff onScandal.
Yeah, there was a bunch.
If you spin off a character, what people want is more of the same.
Instinctively you want more of the same because that really worked.
And to build a new world is incredibly difficult.
WithBridgerton, we did the prequel as opposed to doing a spinoff.
And I love that because it is of the world, but it’s not the world.
I could tell the stories I wanted to tell and find great joy in that.
Because the moment you do a spinoff, fans almost instantly want a crossover.
We did some bonkers crossovers.
We did somePrivate Practicecrossovers.
We did someGrey’sandStation 19crossovers.
We did a lot.
We had a blast doing the crossover withHow to Get AwayandScandal.
So it was great to have them together.
I was shocked when Linda told me that chemistry reads aren’t a big part of Shondaland.
I’ve seen people have amazing chemistry who hated each other’s guts.
For me, really great actors can have chemistry with a telephone book.
If you are a really good actor, you’re able to build chemistry with almost anybody.
Kerry and Tony, I think they met at rehearsal for that White House scene.
I write when it speaks to me.
That might be the show that I’m most proud of right now.
It’s like a little gem, and I really loved getting to be immersed in that world.
It’s when the story gets in your head and you’re able to’t stop thinking about it.
What makes a Shondaland show?
Looking at something recent likeThe Residence, do you choose projects just based on what you like?
Well, we’ve worked with [The Residencecreator]Paul Daviesbefore.
We knew how good he was, but I don’t think any of us were expecting something this.
It’s a really special show, and it was easy to want to be a part of it.
I remember going to the first table read and thinking, “This is lightning in a bottle.
This is really particularly special.”
Jessica Brooks/Netflix
I was watching one ofThe Residence’s walk-and-talks through the White House.
Did you all build out that entire place?
This is the most exciting thing ever, especially because I’ve been to the White House.
They built the White House.
I’m not saying they built a room here, a room there.
It is one of my favorite things ever.
Looking back on 20 years, there are still so many shows we haven’t touched on.
For example, I lovedOff the Mapso much.
Are there shows that you feel didn’t get enough love?
When I think about that, I definitely think aboutOff the Map.Off the Mapwas such a great cast.
But it was that particular time.
It was so good.
I wish it had gone much further than it did.
Oh, interesting, because I’m never really trying to shock an audience.
I’m really just trying to make the story as good as it can be.
We’ve been really good about that.
We did that a lot, actually.
I don’t remember anything else being that extreme or extraordinary.
Mostly we kept the scripts in house.
We’ve definitely also put out scripts without the last five pages.
I’m sure that was the case with George’s (T.R.
Nobody knew who George was.
That was definitely one.
As in the cast?
Yeah, I’m not even sure all the cast knew.
Because, technically, his character had left to become a soldier, so he was already gone.
I know that certain members of the crew knew, and T.R.
was determined that he would be the body lying on the operating table.
But he was wearing a lot of makeup.
I do think we kept it really secret.
What do you feel like is the hardest part of your job?
It’s the easiest part of my job, and it’s the hardest part of my job.
Writing is always hard because you want it to be fantastic and it has to feel right.
But I do love it.
That, to me, still blows my mind.
Maybe when it ends?
Yeah, I might want to write the series finale, if that ever comes.
I keep waiting for it, but no.
I might want to write the series finale.
I’m always excited to see what she comes up with.
She just pitched me the finale of this season and I was so excited by it.
I was so proud of her.
It’s such a good one.
Have you stopped even trying at this point?
I have zero endings forGrey’snow.
I mean, literally zero.
Until season 8, I still had endings.
And by the way, I felt like I ended the series several times.
Liam Daniel/Netflix
Is there anything you feel like you don’t get enough credit for?
No, because unfortunately, I feel like I get all the credit good and bad.
Nobody says, “I didn’t like that script by Raamla Mohamed.”
In a shrinking television environment, we’re still embraced for doing our shows.
So that’s okay with me.
What’s on your career bucket list that you’d like to do?
I’ve always wanted to do that.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
